Orange and Blue Hue » A One-Sided Rivalry?

A One-Sided Rivalry?

David Lee Our friends at A Sea of Blue have recently floated the rather surprising assertion that Florida has not been granted ‘rival status’ by Kentucky. Or, at least, certain Kentucky fans. And writers. Truzenzuzex writes:

He lays down an in-your-face response to Gator fans who have been trying (understandably and with considerable justification) to elevate themselves to the status of “Kentucky Rival”, a coveted, program-validating title that many aspire to but very few programs actually achieve.

Well, forgive my candor, Tru, but you can smack my ass and call me Sally with this one. Winning three national championships in 366 days (two in “your” sport, one in “ours”) while also beating Kentucky six straight times and winning three straight SEC tourneys — ahem, make that the “Gator Invitational” now — while also wrapping up the SEC in 2007 apparently only qualifies as “trying to elevate” Florida to the status of “Kentucky rival.”

That’s an… amazing point of view. I’ve been around the world and seen all kinds of things which either floored me or left my jaw agape with the sheer stupor that besets one after witnessing an event which exceeds the bounds of the familiar or even readily understandable, but this one takes the cake.

First, make no mistake: yes, we consider you our basketball rival. Who else is there? Who else do we play twice per year, who is more important to beat? No one.

Second: our status from Kentucky’s perspective is not especially important. As Keltic Gator wrote in January: “Championships… it’s what we do!” Win, baby. Win, win, win. That’s what Florida is about. Not touchy feely stuff, such as how our, ahem, rivals view us.

Since Kentucky hasn’t been able to get it done on on the court, and have been forced to stand on the sidelines as Florida made hardwood and gridiron history in these last two seasons — and, frankly, haven’t really been in sniffing distance of knocking down the Gators since UF began its championship run in December of 2005 — I suppose they have tried to find a new and interesting way to remind us about their accomplishments in the previous century. Up until now it’s been: tradition, blah blah blah, 1949, blah blah blah, almost-but-not-quite back to back in 1997, blah blah blah, more tradition, blah blah blah, we have 23,000 fans show up for Midnight Madness, blah blah blah.

Now the new one seems to be as follows: despite Florida being the dominant basketball program of the 21st century, having achieved not only three Final Fours in this millenium, but actually playing in three championship games and winning two of them, they have done so only in the process of trying to earn that “coveted, program-validating title” of becoming Kentucky’s rival. They’ve also become the flagship basketball program of the SEC and have relegated Kentucky to second (lately, third or fourth) place. You talk SEC basketball today to someone on the street, and Florida, not Kentucky, is what comes to mind.

Kentucky’s argument that Florida doesn’t “deserve” the “coveted rival status,” one would presume, goes something like this: that pre-season matchups with teams like UNC and UCLA in the EA Sports Maui Invitational are more important. Yes? That Pitino’s Cardinals are the real foe. That the “real basketball schools,” not this upstart football school from the Sunshine State, are the teams that Kentucky worries about.

I’ll be gracious and grant you that the North Carolinas, Kansases, and UCLAs of the world have been on Kentucky’s radar screen longer than our Gators have been. And for that reason, if you Kentucky fans feel these teams are more deserving of your “full attention,” so be it. But we play elite teams too, many of the same names Kentucky faces year in year out, and would play more of them if they’d agree to a home and home series. (For some reason, no one wants any part of the Gators anymore.)

In the modern era, Kentucky has not played a foe, much less an in-conference power opponent, who have more thoroughly wrecked the hopes and dreams of the Big Blue Nation. The Gators have been the rock against which Kentucky has smashed themselves, and while that balance of power can’t always favor the Gators, it’s clear that Florida, for now, is the crème de le crème of the Southeastern Conference. And if Kentucky can’t bother to work up a rivalry-like hatred based on that alone, “B.B.N.” no longer has a pulse.

(Which, I have to admit, is something I have wondered about on occasion when looking at the half-court audience in Rupp Arena. Those folks are pretty damn old.)

But let’s be honest, people. Really. Truly. I’m talking to you, Cat fans. Trying to pretend the Gators aren’t even worthy of Kentucky’s “coveted rival status” doesn’t just come across as disingenuous. It comes across as desperate, preposterous and a little sad. And it shows just how out of touch you are with the rest of the basketball world. Remember, outside of Kentucky there is a real, human-inhabited universe of reasonable and objective people who haven’t associated the phrase “Kentucky Wildcats” with “championship basketball” for the last decade. Those articles you find all the time, having fun at B.B.N.’s expense and generally ridiculing the Kentucky fanbase? There’s a reason there are so many of them, written by so many different writers, and published on so many different sites.

Don’t help them out with additional material, okay?

I finish with a line from Neil McCauley (Robert DiNero) in the movie “Heat,” when he confronts his partner-in-crime’s wife (conveniently played by Ashley Judd), after catching her in the act of adultery.

“Clean up. Go home.”

24 Comments so far
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Well, done, GP. Nice post. I have a response over at ASoB if you care to look.

I loved the whole “desperate” thing. That was really good — not very convincing, but I liked it anyway.

But the “generally ridiculing the Kentucky fanbase” thing is a little harsh, though, don’t you think?

Kind of makes you look “desperate …”

:-)

Later, Gator.

Im a Kentucky fan. I agree with your story Uf deservs respect. I love the Florida and Kentucky games I like watching thos games more thene UL or IU etc. Florida plays a exciting brand of basketball that is fun to watch. In my mind as a Kentucky fan you guys are a rival there is nobody else besides Rocky Top that can get under my skin more. But all in good sportmanship nice post. But get ready the cats will be back.

Before you go claiming the title of “Gator invitational” you might want to look at the fan support at said tournament.

Well done, Ryan. I think there is a simpler explanation, however. BBN can’t admit that Florida is their rival because then they would have to admit they are no longer on top. They would have to acknowledge that the hated Gators have passed them in the SEC pecking order. So, this is just a temporary, 2 year blip on the radar. Nothing to worry about. If you try, you can pretend it didn’t happen. Forget the fact that since 2000 every game between UF and KY has been the most important game of the year in the league. Forget the fact that these games were all close, decided by a couple of points, until the Gators started dominating in the past 2 years. Forget all of that, because you are KY, and you just can’t bring yourself to accept the fact that you are playing second fiddle to Florida.

Am I the only one that remembers the “White Out” that Kentucky staged during their home game against Florida? I would say that the school making those shirts for everyone is all the proof needed that we’re considered a rival. The fact that every Cat in that stadium wore those shirts only validates it!

“Forget the fact that these games were all close, decided by a couple of points, until the Gators started dominating in the past 2 years”

Thats a joke. before the last 2 seasons and Fla 6 game ky win streak we had won 9 straight over your gators and 10 of the last 11. So congrats on finally beating us!

“the fact that since 2000 every game between UF and KY has been the most important game of the year in the league. Forget the fact that these games were all close, decided by a couple of points, until the Gators started dominating in the past 2 years.”

Let us not forget Feb 4th 2003 and that “close” game the “#1″ gators had at rupp arena.
Two years Gators big freaking deal.
Im not going to say that your not a good basketball team, but its just two years how many straight SEC titles had we won before the gator run???? Dont call it the Gator invational yet we still have more SEC titles then all ALL ALLLLLLLLL sec teams combined.

TWO YEARS wow.Next year will be interesting

Leeky wrote:

“m not going to say that your not a good basketball team, but its just two years how many straight SEC titles had we won before the gator run????”

Funny you should ask. Here’s the breakdown of SEC Champions (first column) followed by SEC Tourney champs, since 2000.

2000 Florida, Kentucky, LSU, Tennessee Arkansas
2001 Florida, Kentucky Kentucky
2002 Alabama Mississippi State
2003 Kentucky Kentucky
2004 Mississippi State Kentucky
2005 Kentucky Florida
2006 LSU Florida
2007 Florida Florida

Florida has won the SEC (either split or outright) three times and have won the SEC tourney three times.

Kentucky has won the SEC (either split or outright) four times and has won the SEC tournament three times.

That’s an edge to Kentucky by one SEC Championship… which is not exactly kicking the Gators’ doors down.

Face it, Kentucky: ever since Billy Donovan got the Gators on track in the late nineties, Florida has been the team to beat. Why else was the Big Blue Nation swooning over FLORIDA’s head basketball coach when they finally ran Tubby out of town?

I still laugh whenever I see those Photoshop’d images of Billy D in Kentucky gear. What a riot — Donovan wins two national championships in two years at Florida, and Kentucky thinks they can just pluck him over to the dark side. Think again!

“Face it, Kentucky: ever since Billy Donovan got the Gators on track in the late nineties, Florida has been the team to beat. Why else was the Big Blue Nation swooning over FLORIDA’s head basketball coach when they finally ran Tubby out of town?”

Since the late 90’s? More like 05 and 06. If you asked us about 3 or 4 years ago if we wanted Billy Donovan, we would’ve said heck no. Goes to show you how much has come to pass since then.

As for the second part of your paragraph…after Tubby departed, a lot of UK fans got caught up in the hype surrounding Donovan. Who wouldn’t want a coach who just came off of 2 championship wins? Of course it was natural to go for the ‘hottest’ coach in college basketball.

This question has yet to be answered…was it the coach or the TEAM that won the championship? Quite frankly, Donovan went app. 10 or 11 seasons of virtually nothing before he hit jackpot. It will be interesting to see what he can do with a completely different team.

I wanted to say this. You face it this year As a whole your best players are far to young over all to Compete at the Highest lvl and is Speights prepared to carry all the load down low. Its gonna be a year or so till these recruits of yours blossom and mesh so relax and realize that Kentucky has the more COmposed team overall this year and Take the year off.

One last thing. No offense to Jai but honestly Walter hodge will start Point Guard. And Nick at 2 Guard. Jai is a great Kid and he wasnt a must Have for the Wildcats Either. He prolly woulda been better off at a Maryland or a Oklahoma St then Either School But in a few Years Hell get to start and BE a great Point GUard Have Fun RIding the Pine Jai.

Well, this whole thread is just a little silly, isn’t it? I hope nobody is taking themselves too seriously. I’m a huge Wildcats fan, and I think Tru has some of the most intelligent postings on the web. But he’s just gone over the edge on this one, if he says Florida is not UK’s rival.
Anyhoo, everybody’s got part of it right here. Of course Florida has been awesome for 2 years; of course Florida is Kentucky’s rival _right_now_. And, of course Florida’s performance does not elevate them to the level of UK and UNC in terms of basketball elite based on tradition and consistency. It’s all true. But please, fellow Cat fans, stop with this thread of argument — it IS pathetic. They are up, we are down. They rock, and we say “yeah, but we have always been better than you ’til now” — that’s lame. I prefer “seeya in ‘08!” Let’s talk about that!

Carissa wrote: “Quite frankly, Donovan went app. 10 or 11 seasons of virtually nothing before he hit jackpot. It will be interesting to see what he can do with a completely different team.”

Jeez, what planet do you come from? Do you remember 2000? Donovan took a “completely different” team to a Final Four and proceeded on to the national title game.

Florida’s “early exit” years (2003-2005) must be a fond memory for Cat fans. However, Donovan has a history of excellence starting just a few years after his hire and transformation of Florida basketball, which has now become an elite program.

UofF is a conference rival to UofK. That is it, nothing more. They are the only Challenge UofK has in its conference each year.

To become a complete rival you need:
Proximity - Louisville
with Louisville being so close, homes are often split between the two schools.

Marquee Games-Duke
Every UofK fan has hated Duke since G.Hill and ChrisLat.

Tradition - Kansas, UNC. Louisville
These three teams have been playing quality basketball for years on end. Also these teams have been playing UofK for years on end, hence the rivalry.

P.S. You can also throw Indiana and Cincy in the mix. Great from the 80s and early 90s. Not so much now.

I will give Florida the complete Rivalry status in 20 yrs, when they have proven to be a costant threat to Kentucky year end year out. Or if they move to within a 2hr drive.

“Jeez, what planet do you come from? Do you remember 2000? Donovan took a “completely different” team to a Final Four and proceeded on to the national title game.”

I said virtually nothing, not completely nothing. With that appearance, you became a blip on the basketball radar but nothing more. It wasn’t until the last couple of years that the college basketball world really started taking your program seriously.

“However, Donovan has a history of excellence starting just a few years after his hire and transformation of Florida basketball, which has now become an elite program.”

An elite program? LMAO…you think 2 championshop years with the same team makes you elite? Suddenly you try to elevate yourself up there with the UK’s, UNC’s, IU’s, and even Duke’s…that’s laughable. You mock our history but history is what makes a team elite. Compare any of the schools I listed above to your program and you’ll realize where your place is.

You have to have consistent results throughout the decades, which your program has not. Here’s the thing you need to understand whether you want to or not: you had an elite TEAM, but you’re no where near to an elite PROGRAM. Now that team is gone…can your coach keep up the momentum? I’m not so sure.

No, he can’t keep the momentum…that’s pretty much a given. Billy D. will choke, just like he did when he first got hired. Two championships, with the SAME TEAM… no big deal. Quit making it one.

Gee, Cats4ever, he took two teams to three national championship games in seven years.

Meanwhile the Cats only cracked the Elite Eight once in the same timeframe.

Explain to me again why he can’t keep up the momentum? And why Kentucky’s suddenly going to rear up and reincarnate Adolph Rupp? Billy Gillispie is no doubt an upgrade from ‘Da Tub’ but he is an alcoholic with no more than three years on the job at any Division I school. He hasn’t even built any momentum to lose yet.

What happens when Billy G. decides he loves the sauce even more than hoops?

“Meanwhile the Cats only cracked the Elite Eight once in the same timeframe.”

And that is why the man that was mostly responsible for those years is gone.

“Billy Gillispie is no doubt an upgrade from ‘Da Tub’ but he is an alcoholic with no more than three years on the job at any Division I school. He hasn’t even built any momentum to lose yet.”

We got it…he’s had alcohol problems before. Why do people insist on bringing it up? Hmmm…perhaps it’s because they’ve run out of any other intelligent argument to give.

As for momentum, I’d definitely have to disagree. His few years at those schools look even more impressive when you see how quickly he turned them around. From the bottom of the barrel to beating a very good UofL team in the NCAA tourney…I’d call that one hell of a momentum swing. It’s only sensible that he upgrades to a tougher challenge at UK. He’s a rising coach in the NCAA’s and has all the momentum he needs right now.

Without Acie Law, an inherited star from the previous regime, Billy Gillispie wouldn’t even be on Kentucky’s radar during their latest coaching search. I agree that he’s an up-and-comer but he has a lot to prove in a conference that is a hell of a lot tougher than the Big 12 — at a school which has an ever-so-short fuse on their patience bomb. Therefore, in the context of this discussion, it is more than a little bit ridiculous to question Billy Donovan’s ability to create and sustain momentum. Three championship games in seven years is no fluke, ma’am, and to suggest that a three year run of early exits (from 2003-2005) for Florida is indicative of a delusional look at the situation from afar. Fact: Billy D. has grown Florida to new heights. Fact: to the college baskteball world — maybe not you, but the rest of the world including recruits — Florida is among the elite.

“Suddenly you try to elevate yourself up there with the UK’s, UNC’s, IU’s, and even Duke’s…that’s laughable. You mock our history but history is what makes a team elite. Compare any of the schools I listed above to your program and you’ll realize where your place is.”

It might interest you to know that UK and UF are both in the Top 10 of NCAA tourney performances in the 64-team era of college basketball (starting in 1985.) UK is ahead at #3, but UF is not far behind at #7… well ahead of many so-called “basketball schools.”

[…] Florida and Kentucky fans are debating whether or not they consider each other a rivalry. It’s the age old tradition versus recent success argument. I guess, like the rest of the country, there’s not much going on in Lexington and Gainesville that’s newsworthy right now. […]

“Therefore, in the context of this discussion, it is more than a little bit ridiculous to question Billy Donovan’s ability to create and sustain momentum.”

Actually, since it’s the same team that won those 2 championships, it’s not. My big question is what can he do in the aftermath? That’s assuming he decides to stay there.

“Fact: Billy D. has grown Florida to new heights. Fact: to the college baskteball world — maybe not you, but the rest of the world including recruits — Florida is among the elite.”

Yes, he has brought Florida into the spotlight…a very bright spotlight. But 2 years of success…oh, my bad 3…does NOT qualify them as an elite program, despite how much you want it to be. Like I said in my other post, you had an elite team, but you are not suddenly an elite program. That would be like UK football winning 2 NCAA championships back-to-back with the same roster (love my Cats and I doubt if that will happen but just go with me there) and then calling themselves an elite football school. You and I both know that would be ridiculous.

Carissa,

There have been many attempts by Cat fans to “equalize” the disparity between Florida and Kentucky by comparing our basketball to your football and your basketball to our football.

The problem is, that’s not a legitimate comparison. Florida football is #1. Florida basketball is also #1. That has never been done before, not in the history of college athletics, anyway, and surely not in the midst of a back-to-back championship run in the latter. Kentucky isn’t within sniffing distance of making that happen (in fact, they’re not even within sniffing distance of a single championship in basketball right now.)

What you Kentuckians have a hard time grasping is this: It’s different at Florida. There is complete and total dedication to both sports. Gainesville has been called the Disneyland of college sports by Sports Illustrated and there is a reason for that. There is an expectation of excellence for both, whereas at Kentucky the *hope* is that the Wildcats can at least be competitive in football. Florida’s athletic department is either #1 or #2 in the country in total revenue, depending upon whom you ask (right now the income is rumored to be in the $100mil range but a conservative estimate puts it at $85-90mil) while Kentucky generates around $55mil. Kentucky couldn’t outspend Florida when it came to retaining Billy Donovan — even if had come down to money, which it hadn’t.

So there is really no comparison across both sports. In the last decade, Florida has accomplished more — far more — in both categories. By the way, Florida just wrapped up the All-SEC trophy again this year, which makes the Gators the #1 athletic program in the SEC for 17 of the last 20 years!

Them’s the facts, and there’s no way you can spin ‘em otherwise, m’dear.

I’m not comparing the state of UK football to Florida football. There is no comparison there.

I’m giving an example of what it would be like IF UK did accomplish something like that and comparing it to the Gators basketball championship runs. It would be like UK fans suddenly claiming the football program was there with the Florida’s and the USC’s of the nation. It’s utterly ridiculous to think that 2 years in the spotlight automatically makes you a part of the elite.

What I’m meaning by this whole ordeal is that Donovan does have 2 championship rings given to him by the same exact team. In some ways it’s similar to the Tubby situation in 98 [only Tubby did not coach the team before]. The pieces were already laid in place, so how many stones did the coach himself have to re-polish? The team was already talented and they were bigger than the coach. They gave him his credibility and that’s what has bought him those years at Lexington [and what has bought him a spot in Minnesota now].

The class we’ve just seen at Florida is without a doubt one of the most talented teams I’ve seen recently. As I’ve said to others before, they’re the kind that comes around once a decade, if that (almost like the UK teams from 96-98). So I guess time will tell if Donovan has enough magic to produce a similar product.

But, my time here is up. I’m back to my UK boards, I don’t feel like vacationing in enemy territory anymore. Unless it’s Duke of course…I love making those punks squirm. It was good debating with you. In any case, good luck next season and it will be interesting when our two teams meet on the hardwood since they’ll both be talented this year. Peace!

I dont understand the article. Maybe Im not too smart but if you Florida fans dont care whether or not UK considers you a rival or what they think at all why bother responding to ASEAOFBLUE’s piece. It seems to me like you do care which means you are desperate for some validation that your program will continue to be an elite program. The real test for UF will come when Billy D leaves be it 2 years or 10 years from now.If you are still winning championships with your next coach I’ll consider you a rival.

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